Boy Movies #24
The Succession and Fall Out Boy issue, feat. my friend Ariana
Welcome to the twenty-fourth issue of Boy Movies, my “unsafe” newsletter. I’m honored by the implication that I’m running some sort of fringe publication, I guess. Consider a subscription so I can build an enormous audience and delete my Twitter permanently.
You’re my number one Fall Out Boy movie
This week’s Boy Movies is not, in fact, about a boy movie. It’s not even about movies at all, really. I understand if this is shocking, but before you unsubscribe in a rage, I implore you to join me as I embark on one of my famous “little experiments.” My dear friend Ariana is one of the funniest, smartest people I know, and also the mind behind Number One Fall Out Boy (@numberonefalloutboy), the best Succession-inspired social media account on the internet.
Since its inception, she’s been using this Instagram to examine the lyrics of Fall Out Boy as they correspond to the Roys and their associates in a way that thrills and moves me. Posts are alternately heartbreaking and hilarious: In one, “Hold Me Like a Grudge” scores Tom’s season 3 finale betrayal; in another, Kendall parties at Shiv’s wedding as a line from “Dance, Dance” serves as a sobering reminder that he’s just committed vehicular manslaughter and walked away from the scene of the crime. It’s as evocative as any of the viral fancams that have become synonymous with the series.
In light of this week’s episode of Succession, I messaged Ariana, “we should do a boy movies x numberonefalloutboy crossover” and to my delight she agreed. I guess this is the Succession issue, or maybe it’s the Fall Out Boy issue, or maybe it’s just the synergy issue. Above all, it’s the “I’m playing it fast and loose with the theme I established for myself” issue, but it’s fun to play with the form. There WILL be spoilers, but relax about it. It’s Tuesday! If you haven’t caught up yet and you’re still worried about finding out what happened I would recommend getting a life.
Below is mine and Ariana’s conversation, in which we discuss the captivating drama of emo music, what the Roys would think of Fall Out Boy, and finally determine whether Succession is a boy show or a girl show.
Allison
Where did the inspiration for Number One Fall Out Boy come from?
Ariana
I do not remember the exact moment it came to me, but I searched “Number One Fall Out Boy” in my phone and apparently on July 18, 2021, I texted someone a message that is now worth millions: “Just came up with a great idea on the drive home: Fall Out Number One Boy and it’s an account that pairs Fall Out Boy lyrics with Succession moments.” A few months before, I’d started an Instagram of beaver pics with Justin Bieber lyrics and it’d been a nice little hobby, but there are only so many beaver pics available on Google.com, so this seemed like a perfect new nice little hobby.
Allison
I remember your Justin Beaver account! Tell me about your history as a Fall Out Boy fan and your history as a Succession fan.
Ariana
I got all four wisdom teeth removed on my fourteenth birthday one summer thinking it’d be chill, and it was… not. They gave me Vicodin, but I had a bad reaction to it and ended up puking into a bowl of mac and cheese, so I just had to raw-dog the pain. That first night I couldn’t sleep, and ended up watching MTV at like 3am, when they’d just cycle through music videos. I was pretty bored, and then “Sugar, We’re Goin’ Down” came on and I was immediately sold. It was like when you’re first starting to crush on someone and you feel excited about everything and like, wow, maybe life is okay, and there is so much POSSIBILITY!!! I’d been listening to a lot of Death Cab and Dashboard, and this felt so different than those guys even though they kind of all get lumped together now. There was a punk edge to it, a defiant weirdness. As soon as I felt better, I had my brother take me to Sam Goody to get their albums. I’ve been a Fall Out Boy ever since.
Succession was a harder sell. I honestly hated the idea of it at first, and didn’t think I’d ever watch it. I don’t know if you want to reveal this to your readers, but I remember we both were very anti-Succession in the beginning. It just seemed like a boring-ass prestige drama about a bunch of rich people, and all the annoying media snobs on Twitter loved it, which didn’t help its case. I feel like at some point, though, you must have started watching it and been like, “We were wrong…” because I can’t think of any other reason I would have ever started watching. And, (number one) boy, WERE we wrong!!!! I mean, it is a prestige drama about a bunch of rich people, but it’s so much more, man…
Allison
I am LAUGHING at you outing me to my beautiful audience! I'm going to be fearlessly real and own up to it. Yes, we were both resistant to Succession at first. I think the way media people talk about it is and has always been so annoying, and that was unfortunately a lot of what we were exposed to for reasons outside of our control. If anyone had told me it’s actually a show about trying to do karaoke with your siblings despite a lifetime of being pitted against each other by your crazy dad I would’ve been all in immediately, but c’est la vie.
Ariana
Okay, wow, let’s take a minute to appreciate how brave we’re being. People change!!!!
Allison
Not to embarrass you, but that actually is a lot of the reason, to me, why Number One Fall Out Boy is so good. There’s such an oversaturation of Succession-based “content” (do you love me dropping the word “content” right now...), but what you’re doing works in ways that the rest of it often does not because it hits that ideal midpoint between sincerity and jokiness. Your genuine enthusiasm for and understanding of the band and the show comes across. You’re developing methods of thinking about and commenting on the show in a way that's both fun and, dare I say, insightful.
Ariana
Thank you for your kind words. I love to laugh, but I also love to spend hours thinking about the psychology of fictional characters. That’s the @numberonefalloutboy way, baby.
Allison
This seems like a good time to ask one of the essential questions. Is Fall Out Boy a boy band or a girl band? I of course don’t mean boy band in the One Direction sense, though you can choose to answer that, too. This is the first time I’m talking about music in Boy Movies!
Ariana
Fall Out Boy is 100% a girl band. Trying to figure out why is making me feel like I just took shrooms and also like this could be an entire book? Should we just start a podcast?
At its core, Fall Out Boy just wants to be loved, and their songs are all about the feelings that arise when they feel unloved or unlovable. Rejection is a common theme in their music, and while rejection is not unique to any gender, showing an emotional response to it feels very girly. And that’s a compliment to girls, to be clear. Being rejected sucks, and it’s dishonest to pretend otherwise, but that feels like the boy thing to do: I don’t even care, I could do so much better anyway, I didn’t even like her that much. But Fall Out Boy really fucking cares. “Wish that I was as invisible as you make me feel” — yes!!!!
As a teenager hearing lyrics like those, I felt such comfort in how shamelessly they wrote and sang about their pain. Like, phew, I’m not the only one who feels this bad, who feels these things. They are such dramatic thoughts to have and especially to share, and that’s part of why Fall Out Boy — and emo music as a whole — are seen as a joke to some people, most often straight men who equate showing emotion to showing weakness. But we’re all, those guys included, drama queens! Sometimes your crush doesn’t want to kiss you and it (hopefully briefly but times may vary!!!) makes you question your entire existence! It’s not ideal, but it happens, and Fall Out Boy isn’t afraid to acknowledge that. Fall Out Boy keeps it real, and girls keep it real, so therefore Fall Out Boy is a girl band.
Allison
You know, I was going to ask you next whether Succession is a boy show or a girl show and attempt to tie them together based on your response but I think you already did it. How many times have the characters on Succession gotten rejected and cared so, so deeply about it? That is essentially the theme of Kendall, Roman, Shiv, and Connor’s lives. I think Succession is a girl show masquerading as a boy show for that reason; boys love to talk about it like it’s corporate Game of Thrones, and there’s the weird (largely male) subsection of the fan base that desperately wants to watch Logan rip his kids apart, which... okay. Good luck to them. But the true heads that get it really get it.
Anyone who cares about the business elements divorced from the emotions that surround them is watching this show in an insane manner that I don’t care to engage with. Succession is a girl show in the way that it’s very much about the feelings bubbling under the surface and the things that go unsaid. It's also a show about empathy! I don't understand those freaks who continually act surprised when they realize Succession has made them care about the characters. It’s a show full of TV’s biggest drama queens — can you imagine not caring about them? I’m realizing in this moment that that’s why the Fall Out Boy/Succession connection makes so much sense.
To get technical about it, I want to ask about the typical process of crafting a Number One Fall Out Boy post. Do you have any rules for yourself? Do you take notes while watching episodes? What does your screenshot folder look like? I’ve been privy to a few pitch meetings (that’s what I’m calling our Gchats), but I’m curious if your methods have evolved over time.
Ariana
EXACTLY. It’s a devastating show, and that’s a perfect encapsulation of why. God, just thinking about Connor finding out his dad is dead and responding with, “He never even liked me,” and the way Kendall gently goes, “Hey, Con.” That “Hey, Con” says so much. (Jeremy Strong for Lifelong Best Actor!) It’s like he’s almost taken aback that Connor actually said that out loud, and also like he’s been overtaken by the need to protect his big brother from bearing the weight of lifelong rejection on top of finding out their dad is dead. I want to hug them both.
My process has definitely gotten a bit more streamlined over time. At first, I would just listen to Fall Out Boy and wait for a lyric to remind me of a Succession moment, but that got old fast. One night I went through every single one of their songs on Genius (sponsor me) and copy-and-pasted any lyrics I thought could work into a doc. I’ve let you and a couple other VIPs into that doc before to write down moments next to lyrics, and then I’ll go take the screengrab. I try not to repeat lyrics, so once I’ve posted some, they get X’d out.
This season, I started out by taking screengrabs throughout the new episode and then assigning lyrics to those grabs after. But after the first one, I realized that I was mostly taking screengrabs of Kendall looking happy, not because I thought they would work well with Fall Out Boy lyrics, but because it’s so rare seeing him smile that every time he does, I’m like, my boy <3. So I’ve had to adjust my approach and now focus on screengrabbing The Big Moments. Maybe as a Christmas present I’ll make you a collage with the Kendall ones, though!
Allison
I’m literally begging you to make me a Kendall collage. I also love to see him happy, and it’s such a rarity. Even seeing him pretty content at the beginning of the season — you knew it was only a matter of time before it came crashing down, which it’s already starting to after this week’s episode.
I of course understand primarily focusing on Kendall while screengrabbing, but who is your favorite character to attribute a Fall Out Boy lyric to? Have you ever been surprised to see how well certain songs fit certain characters? As you know, I’m not as familiar with FOB as you wish I was (start paying me to be your intern and I’ll become an expert overnight!), but I do know and love all the big songs. Personally, I laugh whenever you find a reason to make a Logan post — just the contrast of this evil old guy with pop punk lyrics and emojis surrounding his face really gets me.
Ariana
If Logan knew what pop punk was, he’d call them all lipsticked maggot pussies, and that’s just beautiful to think about.
The more scorned a character feels by Logan, the better they are for Fall Out Boy lyrics. Sure, Shiv gets fucked around, but Logan also is always bumbling around calling her Pinky, so I don’t see her as dealing with the same level of rejection as her brothers do. Meanwhile, The Boys are basically created from Fall Out Boy songs. Maybe they ARE Fall Out Boy. Conspiracy time!!
This season, Connor especially is really giving me a lot of gifts. I could have made five posts from the karaoke scenes alone, but I practiced restraint because much like the Roys, I don’t think my followers really care about Connor all that much. Maybe I should just become a Connor-only account. Stay tuned!
Allison
Speaking as a Conhead, I always welcome more Content. (There I go evoking “content” again…) As a Boy Movies exclusive, can you share a rejected Connor post?
Ariana
I’ll allow you one Cutting Room Connor but only because you said the magic word (content): “Do you laugh about me whenever I leave / Or do I just need more therapy?” Actually, that’s fucking good. Maybe it’ll get to live after all!!
Allison
Man oh MAN that’s some good Con(nor)tent. Now that you’ve told the Boy Movies audience about it, it will certainly go viral if you do end up salvaging it from the cutting room floor.
I agree about Logan, by the way. Heart failure is ultimately what did him in, but the sight of that many guys wearing skinny jeans could’ve killed him years ago, had he ever been made aware of Fall Out Boy’s existence. Do you think any of the other characters are aware of or enjoy Fall Out Boy? I feel like Kendall knows of them because he’s canonically a big music fan, though I’d bet he’s never listened to a song. Maybe he heard “Uma Thurman” while being driven around the city back when that was getting constant radio play, but he didn’t register that he was listening to FOB. Greg has maybe been to a Fall Out Boy concert. That’s it, though.
Ariana
Oh yeah, Kendall definitely heard them on the radio and felt insecure that he didn’t recognize the song so just, to no one, said, “I saw them at Coachella, yeah, ‘06? I was rolling, man. Great time.” And Greg tried to crowdsurf but got dropped :\ Sad!
I could see Roman finding out that his crush liked “Grand Theft Autumn” and making fun of it but then going home and learning how to play “Pretty in Punk” on a Jimi Hendrix guitar Connor won for him at an auction and then never playing it for her because he was so bad at it.
Allison
I’m smiling at the pathetic image of Roman trying to play guitar. Shiv, who doesn’t listen to music, would definitely make fun of him for being so bad and it would lead to him resenting Fall Out Boy forever.
What posts come to mind when you think of your favorites?
Ariana
My Logan’s dead post might be my favorite. Since it’s maybe the show’s Biggest Big Moment, I wanted it to be really good, but I combed through my lyrics doc a couple times and nothing seemed right. Then I remembered “Dead on Arrival,” and thought, wow, Logan really was dead… on arrival. When you know, you know.
And then honorable mention goes to this heartbreaker, which I think would make a lovely piece of bathroom art. I am not the first to screengrab that moment nor will I be the last, because it’s everything the Mona Lisa wants to be. As a sister who has put her hand on a sad brother’s head, it speaks to me in a way I would say I should talk to my therapist about, but once we spent a whole session talking about a show (Chernobyl, duh) and then she tried to break up with me because she thought I was healed, so I’ve banned myself from bringing up TV again. This was another looking-for-the-perfect-lyrics-for-this-perfect-image situation, and once again, the Boys delivered.
Allison
The last time I tried to talk to my therapist about a TV show it was Succession and I got so embarrassed by how much I cared about it that I quickly changed the subject. Anyway, the artistry happening in both of these is really something else. The Logan’s dead post, as I told you privately, is an instant classic because it succinctly captures the moment (he’s always been dead!) and because of what’s happening in the caption. I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention that some of your best work lies in the absolutely batshit captions you come up with. Remember the time you asked me to name a dream wedding reception song and then made a post that contained a gorgeous work of Kendall/Stewy fanfiction?
Ariana
I just reread that caption and, wow, chills. Some might call it a meme account, but you and I both know that it’s really an experimental art piece with a mind of its own.
Allison
Fall Out Boy’s 2015 album is called American Beauty/American Psycho. I did not know about this until I was doing some Googling earlier, but it intrigued me. Have you seen either of these films?
Ariana
I’ve been waiting for someone to ask me if I’ve seen either American Beauty or American Psycho, so thank you. I saw American Beauty at the same sleepover where I watched notable Boy Movie Se7en and now for the first time in my life am wondering why a group of teenagers chose a Kevin Spacey double feature? Anyway, I remember nothing about it except the plastic bag thing and that the one girl was always naked in roses. Garden State was much better.
Should I see American Psycho? I wonder if I would like the Fall Out Boy album if I had. I do like Tom Petty’s “American Girl,” for what it’s worth.
Allison
Wow, teen Kevin Spacey apologists… maybe this issue is just a ploy to have you retroactively canceled. I have seen both, but not in quite some time, and yet I’m going to make a bold statement: American Psycho is a better movie than American Beauty. I’d posit that both are girl movies that have been co-opted as boy movies, but for different reasons. Honestly, the only reason I brought it up was to give this issue a tenuous connection to the overall theme of the newsletter. That said, I’m not sure if you personally would like American Psycho — it’s almost nothing like Garden State, your favorite movie — so maybe just go listen to Tom Petty’s “American Girl” instead. Great song!
Ariana
Having never seen American Psycho as we just established, I’m going to be equally bold and agree with you there. If anyone is disappointed by the lack of movie in this movies newsletter, just pretend that every time we say “Succession,” we really mean the American movie of your choice.
Allison
What does it mean to you that both Boy Movies and Number One Fall Out Boy have “boy” in the name?
Ariana
Remember that show Brotherly Love with the Lawrence brothers? Who even were the Lawrence brothers? That’s what I think about when I think about how both of our highly regarded side projects have “boy” in the name. Also, I’m not a boy movies girl. My favorite movies are usually just two people talking and laughing and crying and that’s it. Add an explosion or a car chase, and I’m out. But I like that every time I read Boy Movies, I have at least one moment where I think, huh, maybe I would like this? You have a way of taking the suit off the boy movie and showing it in its underwear in a way that’s really thoughtful and unexpected. There’s more than meets the eye, blah blah.
I created that really perfect metaphor to illustrate that I think Number One Fall Out Boy tries to strip Succession down to its underwear too, in the sense that a lot of it is imagining what’s going on in their heads during these tense moments where so much goes unspoken. What I’m trying to say is, I firmly believe that one day “boy” will be shorthand for analyses of modern media with an emphasis on emotional undercurrents and a You Gotta Laugh ethos, all because of two little women I like to call Allison and Ariana.
Allison
There are a few boys I’d like to strip down to their underwear, ha ha ha! No, that is so nice of you to say, thank you very much. You do the same thing for me with your highly regarded “boy” side project. As an extremely casual Fall Out Boy listener, you make a band with such a daunting catalog feel accessible by slapping their lyrics on top of a photo of Kendall and his big wet eyes. You really know how to speak my language. Also, you’re right on the money with that assessment — what’s so fun about Succession, and why it’s inspired an enormous fancam boom, is that the characters are always holding back their feelings, and creating an outlet where they can be expressed via the musical stylings of Pete Wentz and Patrick Stump helps paint a more vivid picture of what’s going on internally. It’s good stuff. Should we give a TED Talk?
Ariana
TED has never once asked us to talk, and yet we do anyway. Nevertheless we persist.
Allison
Finally, I’m going to name some Succession characters and I want you to tell me what Fall Out Boy song you feel best describes each of these Fall Out Roys.
Kendall
Roman
Shiv
Connor
Logan
Tom, who I have to ask about because people love him, even if I personally do not.
Ariana
I had the time of my life deciding on these songs, so thank you for providing that experience.
Kendall: “7 Minutes in Heaven (Atavan Halen).” So catchy and so dark. Reminds me of Kendall tweaking on meth :(
Roman: I almost chose “Irresistible” since it’s all about masochism and we know Roman’s love language is being called a dry worm or whatever, but I like “The Patron Saint of Liars and Fakes” for him more because it’s outwardly angry but hints at insecurity, which feels like his whole thing.
Shiv: “XO” is a hot bummer, and that’s very Shiv.
Connor: “Save Rock and Roll,” partly because Elton John sings on it and I’m pretty sure one day we’ll get a deleted scene of Connor getting down to “Crocodile Rock” at karaoke, and also because “I cried tears you’ll never see / So fuck you, you can go cry me an ocean, and leave me be.”
Logan: “Centuries,” a song I have only listened to against my will. The chorus is “You will remember me / Remember me, for centuries” and sounds like a dictator pump-up jam. Logan City!
Tom: “Calm Before the Storm.” Cuck anthem.
Allison
I can’t believe you made me think of “Centuries,” one of the worst songs ever written and a huge hit among the eight year olds I watched at the summer camp I worked at the year it came out. Thank you for taking this so seriously, and for being a guest on the inaugural issue of Boy Music and TV Shows.
Ariana’s Fall Out Roys picks, all in one convenient playlist!
If you haven’t heard enough from me re: Succession, I wrote about The Episode for TV Guide. Look, it’s always unspeakably emotional when something I love turns into dead dad media, but I’m still marveling at how honest and circuitous and chaotic it felt — even Logan Roy isn’t impervious to the humbling mundanity of death. There’s an acute horror that comes from being shoved in front of the ear of a just-deceased loved one and instructed to say goodbye because they “might still be able to hear you.” I’ve never seen a better summation of that specific experience. Incredible television.
haters may disagree but roman is the key that turns succession from a boys show into a girls show. someone digging themselves into deeper and deeper holes just to get someone, anyone to say they like them???????? i mean
Btw I am eagerly awaiting BM’s first "Notes" appearance