Boy Movies #35

The J.J. Abrams issue, feat. Kelly Connolly

You’re reading Boy Movies, a weekly newsletter about movies for boys. This month is Blockbuster Month, and if anything about that interests you I’ll use this space to gently encourage you to consider subscribing.

If I hated myself, the name of this newsletter would be “Tumblr Movies.” I’ve covered enough of them, and I regret to inform you that I’ll be talking about another one today. Luckily, it’s made less embarrassing by the fact that I’m joined by this week’s guest, Kelly Connolly, who is one of the sharpest, most diligent editors I’ve ever met and a tenured professor at the J.J. Abrams School of Media. Kelly’s Boy Movies debut has been a long, long time in the making, and I wanted to have her on to discuss the 2009 Abrams-directed masterpiece¹ Star Trek because of her enthusiasm for and vast knowledge of all things J.J. Some may say it’s bold for two people who know nothing of Star Trek as a franchise to go on record discussing anything related to Star Trek, but Kelly and I are known for being bold people. (To boldly go, as they say…)

Abrams’ Star Trek is, in many ways, the perfect Boy Movies subject. It straddles the line between boy movie and girl movie; it’s a bygone era type of reboot. It helped bring the Star Trek franchise back. It was our first major Chris Pine vehicle, playing hotshot shithead James T. Kirk, whose dad is super dead but who possesses untapped amazing space boy potential. It’s only after he gets aboard the Enterprise, meets his boyfriend frenemy, Spock (Zachary Quinto), and gets in the crosshairs with some pissed off aliens that he starts to unlock that potential. 

I cannot lie: This is one of my favorite movies. I saw it in theaters in 2009 with Boy Movies board member Cassidy Olsen. I wasn’t raised on Star Trek and I don’t particularly like sci-fi, but the zippy, adventurous spirit spoke to me; I remember coming home from seeing it for the first time and promptly changing my LiveJournal display icon to one of Chris Pine’s beaten, bloodied face in That Scene (you know the one). On Kelly’s end, she was first and foremost there because of the Abrams connection: “[He] was kind of my gateway,” she told me. “Because I loved Alias more than, I believe, any human being in the world.”

Years later, there’s still so much to say about Star Trek 2009, especially as we continue to be inundated not just with new Star Trek TV shows, but with a relentless stream of reboots and revivals. Below is mine and Kelly’s conversation, in which she gives me an astoundingly detailed crash course in the machinations of the J.J. Abrams connected universe and we finally settle the question that has been plaguing the population for over a decade: Is Chris Pine an actress?

Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence

Allison
I think we should just dive into J.J. right away, because that’s what you brought up when we were making plans for this issue. I guess I should just ask this straight up — do you think he’s a boy director?

Kelly
I’m glad you brought this up, because I made extensive notes while watching this, so here are all of the notes that I wrote on the subject of where J.J. Abrams falls on the boy movies continuum:

1. He makes girl TV shows but likes boy movie franchises.

2. He has boy movie taste and girl movie sensibilities. I don’t really know what I mean by that. Like, genre-wise, boy movie taste, but the details within it are girl movie details.

3. Girl movie characters in boy movies.

   1. Secondary bullet point: played by girl actors.

4. He makes boy action but girl sci-fi.

Allison
Wait, so, Alias… girl show.

Kelly
Alias girl show. Absolute girl show.

Allison
Lost… I feel like many of the Lost fans that I know are women. So… boy show, but—

Kelly 
I can’t not call Lost a boy show, just because of how much of it is built on mythology. But I think that Lost attracted boy show fans and then kind of spurned them. Everyone who was mad about the finale were people who cared about the plot details and whether the plot quote-unquote “made sense.” I was obsessed with the finale² because the finale was character-based and emotional. So I don’t think that it followed all the boy show rules.

Allison
I love that. I tried with Lost. My friend Cassidy, who I saw Star Trek with in theaters, tried to get me to watch it. I think I made it through, like, half of the first season, and I was like, “Dude, I can’t do it.” But knowing nothing, I think you’re right. I feel this way about Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul, too. Boys love them for a very specific…

Kelly
In their way.

Allison
Yeah, in their little way. But to us, they’re our special shows.

Kelly
Exactly. Let’s also not forget that J.J. Abrams created Felicity. He created the teen girl ’90s TV show — one of many, but it was a fantastic addition to that canon. So his start was girl shows all the way, and then in Alias, you really see the transition of J.J. Abrams. It sort of bridges that gap. It really feels like a Felicity show in terms of the characters, but the plot stuff is action and some sci-fi, and it feels like it blends all of those different J.J. Abrams sensibilities together, in a way. But I think it’s his characters, really. I think that’s what makes it work or not. And I think the movies of his that don’t work are probably the ones that are more beholden to franchise obligations as opposed to his own original characters. I think he definitely has Don Draper “Only Likes the Beginning of Things” syndrome, which you can also see in his shows. But I have such a soft spot for him because the beginnings of things are great.

Allison
That’s such an interesting thing with Star Trek in particular, because I honestly — listen, I don’t know how people feel about this movie, because I just love it so much. Every time I watch it I’m like, “It’s one of the greatest movies ever made. Is this how we all feel?” But he also directed the sequel, Into Darkness, and everyone hated that movie. I remember feeling pressured to hate it. And then he famously did not direct the final installment. It does make me think he really had it at the beginning. He loves the beginning of things.

Kelly
He loves the start of a mystery, but not having to solve said mystery. I think solving the mystery is sometimes overrated. I respect that. I know you’re not as experienced with the full J.J. canon, but what are your thoughts on where this one specifically falls on the boy movie continuum?

Allison
I was thinking about this when I was rewatching it. I saw it for the first time in 2009, I was a very different person in 2009. I probably watch it at least once every couple of years, and my perception of it has changed over time. There are so many girl movie elements about it. I feel like Kirk in this — I can’t speak to the original series, but this Kirk is like, “My dad is dead! I need a purpose!” He’s picking fights with Spock, and he’s so mouthy. He’s just a girl character. He has a hero’s journey, but a girl hero’s journey. He comes of age. I know I throw this term around in the newsletter a lot, but he’s Lady Bird. Then you watch other parts of it and Uhura’s undressing in front of her green roommate, which cracks me up every single time. Like, yes, that is how women behave around each other. Absolutely. It’s actually not as misogynistic as I would maybe think, or as misogynistic as other movies of that time were, but there are definitely little 2009 boy humor things.

Kelly
The moment in the fight when he grabs her chest.

Allison
Yes, and she shoves him. I actually still really like Uhura, I think she’s a good character. But she’s very, like, empowered woman, you know?

Kelly
It’s pretty one-note.

Allison
And what a choice to give her a romance with Spock. I still think that that’s kind of bananas. I think Zoe Saldaña and Zachary Quinto have chemistry, but every time I watch it, I’m like, “Oh, right, these two are supposed to be dating and he was her teacher.” I don’t know how that would fly today. And if this movie were made today, she would be wearing pants and she would be like, “I’m single and loving it!” That would be her thing.

Overall, I think the movie fluctuates a lot on the boy-girl movie spectrum. It derives from this very boy franchise, but it’s kind of like what you were saying about Lost. Men love Star Trek, but I know so many gay people with Star Trek tattoos who deeply love it and see themselves in it. I see that through Spock, I see that through Kirk. And, you know, space is gay. I think the beauty of this movie is that it feels very much like it was made to fit the boy movie mold, and in many ways it does, but it also, likely because of J.J., weaves in and out.

Kelly
This got me thinking, because I think that Kirk is definitely much more of the girl movie character than Uhura is. First of all, I just want to acknowledge that this movie was not written by J.J. Abrams. It was written by Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci, who were also Alias writers, and then they also co-created Fringe with J.J. Abrams.

Allison
Oh my god, you’re bringing all the institutional knowledge.

Kelly
You are so welcome. So when I talk about J.J. Abrams, I’m also talking about all of his collaborators who are also part of his TV world. But anyway, I want to say that I think he has written a lot of fantastic female characters. I think Sydney Bristow on Alias is fantastic. I’m not much of a Star Wars person either. I’ve seen it, but I don’t spend a lot of my free time thinking about it. But I remember in the first of his Star Wars movies, Rey felt a lot like Sydney Bristow to me, and he does write that type of female character very well. What’s funny about this movie is that he is writing that exact same type of upstart, brilliant, brooding, damaged character, but it’s not a woman this time. It’s Kirk. That’s why he’s so appealing.

Allison
That’s why we love him. I love the girl character tropes being imprinted on him. Did you watch the original series at all?

Kelly
No, I mean, after I watched this movie, my mom told me that she loved the original series when she was a kid. I didn’t know that, because it wasn’t something that I was raised on. But obviously, even though there’s this boy movie patina to the franchise, I know that many girls were watching it from the beginning. But no, I had no experience with the original series.

Allison
I didn’t either. I remember that after this movie came out, people started discovering the original series. I gather that Kirk was a pretty different character in the show, too. I almost don’t want to say anything out of turn about the original Kirk because I don’t want people coming for me. I simply don’t know, but that’s what I’ve gathered. But I do think there’s a lot to be said about how this Kirk came out of that version, since they were obviously created in different decades.

Kelly
I was reading reviews of this movie after I watched it this weekend, and it’s interesting to look back on a time that was technically pretty recent, but it feels so far away in terms of where this franchise was at. People were like, “Oh, there is still life in the Star Trek franchise.” I mean, regardless of how much they thought it felt like an actual Star Trek movie, but most people who agreed that it was entertaining were like, “Wow, it’s shocking that we can revive the Star Trek franchise in the year 2009.” And now it’s everywhere. Streaming has helped a lot on the subject of what you were talking about with people finding it. When I was a kid, I don’t know that there would have been an easy way for me to watch it.

Allison
Actually, this is funny timing because I was just listening to William Shatner’s episode of Marc Maron, and he was talking about how when the show came out, it was not a hit. No one watched it, they only ran for three seasons. People only started discovering it years later and there was a lot of demand and that’s how they ended up making the movies that Shatner and Nimoy were in. That was obviously before TV revivals were really a thing, so they just made all these movies. That’s kind of been the legacy of Star Trek in general, there’s an underdog narrative. You brought up Star Wars, and it feels like Star Wars has never stopped being popular. Star Trek has kind of waned and gone up and down. It’s like the little franchise that could. That almost makes it a girl thing.

Kelly
And it’s definitely got a more intellectual and socially conscious reputation as a franchise than Star Wars.

Allison
If I know nothing about Star Trek, I know less than nothing about Star Wars. I’ve never seen a Star War. The most I’ve got is that I rode the ride in Disneyland, and I saw all the things that they had going on there. But so many queer people have such good feelings about Star Trek. Obviously, anyone can like Star Wars, but I do think it’s nice that this Star Trek movie is part of the franchise.

Kelly
It’s progressive in a lot of ways.

Allison
Yeah, yeah. That’s a thing now in franchises, but they’re all trying too hard. It’s the Other Two joke with the gay goo, and now there’s actual non-binary goo in the Elemental movie. “The goo is non-binary! Is this activism?” Before that really started being a thing where you were getting bashed over the head with corporate Pride and corporate Black Lives Matter and whatever else, there was actually this thing that was cool and progressive and continues to be a big deal. Again, this is another girl narrative. These are not the things that men talk about when they talk about Star Trek.

Kelly
I feel like I remember J.J. Abrams getting some flack around this time for admitting to being more of a Star Wars person.

Allison
I remember that because people brought up all of those quotes when he signed on to do The Force Awakens. People were like, “He finally got his wish!”

Kelly
He got what he wanted. It does feel like — and I’m saying this without the most experience with either franchise — he’s trying to make a Star Wars movie within the Star Trek world. But it’s okay with me, personally. If he needed my approval.

Allison
We’ve touched on it a little, but this does bring me to the question of what you think makes this a boy movie. What are the boy elements, other than Star Trek itself?

Kelly
Yeah, because as we’ve discussed, the Star Trek franchise can live in all universes. I think it’s partly the fact that, as I just said, it’s kind of trying to be a Star Wars movie.

Allison
It’s trying to be another boy thing. It’s trying to be its older brother.

Kelly
Right. There is a heavy focus on mythology, but also throwing mythology out the window. That is, I can say for sure, very J.J. Abrams. That’s something that he loves to do, sort of pick and choose what he wants to bring into the feature, and I think it works very well for this. And actually, I’m gonna go on a tangent from the boy movie question for a minute because one thing I was thinking about was the fact that it’s a daddy issues movie.

Allison
Oh, absolutely. That was in my notes. Every time I watch it, I’m like, “Oh, my god, this is about having daddy issues!”

Kelly
Everyone’s got daddy issues in it, and I think that that’s a common element of the J.J. Abrams universe. And I think that it actually really fits with the idea of this being a franchise that he’s reinventing, because the question that he’s filtering through the movie is, “How do you carry on a legacy?”

Allison
Which is a boy movie trope, of course.

Kelly
Boy movie trope, and it’s about dads, but it’s also about the franchise and about how you move it forward, and what’s worth carrying forward from it. The daddy issues become this big, overarching comment on the nature of where this movie fits into the franchise in a funny way, because it’s about these young guns restarting an adventure. I’m sure we’re going to talk more about Leonard Nimoy, who just looms over it as this legacy who’s also explicitly handing the keys to them and saying, “This is yours now. Go for it.” There’s grief for Kirk, but there’s also this fantasy of being able to kind of go back and interact with a father figure.

Allison
And he’s older Spock, and he’s Spock who’s nice to him. I love that moment where he asks Spock Prime, “Did I know my dad in your universe?” And Spock’s like, “Oh, yeah, he was very proud of you.” It’s just such a great moment.

Kelly
What makes it a boy movie to you?

Allison
Daddy issues for sure. Men and their fathers! Also, Spock watching his mom die is a big one, too — boys and their moms! There’s always something going on with boys and their moms. I also think action, sci-fi, these are genres that are traditionally seen in the boy movie capacity. I like your point about it being a comment on the franchise as a whole. The question of how to carry on a legacy has been a central question in movies and TV and books forever, but I’ve pointed this out so many times in the issues that I’ve written over the past few months — Top Gun: Maverick is the first example that came to mind, but these franchises that have gone on for a while, you have the older people, but you also have the newer people, and they’re all meeting in the middle, and they’re all like, “How do we coexist? Do I hand the torch off to you or can we make a future together? Can we figure out how to reinvent the thing that we’re all a part of? At what point do you have to give up?” Men are obsessed with legacy, which is also very fathers and sons too, right? That’s the whole thing. “I’m you, but I’m not you, and how do I be you but how do I also be my own person?” Also, all those shots of the spaceship, man. Obsessive shots of spaceships is a very boy movie thing.

Kelly
It’s a very shiny movie.

Allison
So shiny! The lens flare! Are there other boy movie elements?

Kelly
One other that I just thought of is young Kirk with the car.

Allison
And the Beastie Boys!

Kelly
What a way to introduce a character. It’s funny how much of the early part of this movie is introductions to characters disguised as capital C Cool Moments.

Allison
Yes, yes! There’s a series of character intros, and these are all legacy characters who we’re now seeing played by different people, but he does a really good job of giving everyone their moment and telling you who each character is in a very condensed amount of time. But it’s like they’re all Kramer bursting in through the door, essentially. Except they’re doing it in very tricky, cool ways. I love young Kirk and the car so much. And it’s Greg Grunberg over the phone as Kirk’s angry step-dad!

Kelly
I was gonna say, it’s his old friend. One of many noted J.J. Abrams collaborators to appear in this movie.

Allison
Who else?

Kelly
Well, I should start with the fact that Victor Garber had a deleted appearance. I believe as a Klingon interrogator.

Allison
Who has his own Wiki, this character who is not in the movie.

Kelly
Rachel Nichols, who’s the green roommate, she was in Alias. Amanda Foreman, who is one of the side characters on the bridge of the Enterprise. She was in, I think, Felicity and definitely Alias. Oz Perkins, who is best known for Legally Blonde to me, which is not a J.J. Abrams thing, but he was also in a couple episodes of Alias. Clifton Collins Jr., who has also been in some J.J. Abrams stuff. There were a lot of side characters who were familiar. But I think, while I’m discussing J.J. Abrams — this is the J.J. Abrams blog post for me—

Allison
It’s literally the J.J. Abrams issue.

Kelly
Let’s lean into it! I think he has a very particular sensibility to the way that he and his people cast things that I really appreciate, where he doesn’t cast the most well-known people as the lead. He surrounds people who are relatively new, but talented, with strong supporting players who are often played by very established actors, and I think that’s a really good approach to a lot of franchises. It works so well to have Leonard Nimoy being that character who is tying the old and new together, but also to bring this gravity to a movie that is otherwise so full of people who are young hotshots.

Allison
Thinking about the cast of this movie is fun, because none of them were that famous. Like, I knew Zachary Quinto from Heroes. And John Cho! He is so good here. I don’t want to say they were all nobodies, but it was a different level of blockbuster fame.

You said we were going to talk about Leonard Nimoy more, and we are. I do want to talk about Leonard Nimoy. I love him and I don’t know where it comes from. I guess this movie! But I look at him and I think, “Oh my god, what a guy.” It’s J.J. being like, “We’re gonna appease the old fans, but we’re also going to show that this is cool that we’re doing this. Leonard Nimoy says so.”

Kelly
You mentioned this earlier a little bit, but there are so many more reboots and revivals and this type of movie now than there were even in 2009. So it feels a little less revolutionary now, but at the time it felt really clever and kind of new for them to do it the way they did it where it’s a new timeline. They’re not trying to fit into the original timeline and it frees them up to not mess with that at all and also not be beholden to it, but still respect it. I think that was a clever way of doing it, and to bring in Leonard Nimoy on screen to kind of give his blessing without taking away from anything that happened in the original series, and also without making anyone do an impression of the original series, was smart.

In terms of the emotional reaction that he gives me, I cried when he said, “Thrusters on full.” I don’t have any connection to what that means. But I cried! I think he’s really well deployed in this movie. From a franchise level, they needed an actor with his presence to be there. I’m always surprised by how early in the movie he shows up. In my head, it’s something that happens later. And what also really sells it, I think, is Chris Pine’s work, because Kirk immediately gets, “Oh, the two of us have a positive relationship.” He internalizes “you are my my friend,” and he has this respect for Spock Prime that I think really translates well to the audience whether or not you have any familiarity with the franchise.

Allison
I agree. Not that there’s any version of this where it’s not clear who he is, but the gravity of his presence is so clear right away. It feels so different from the way things like that happen in movies now, where someone turns around and the music swells and it’s this whole thing and it just feels so corny. But it’s well done here.

Kelly
Very human.

Allison
Very human, and I love that he has his own motivation for getting Kirk back to the ship. It also reminds me of something I was thinking about which was that this movie is not a trailer for Into Darkness. This movie has a beginning, middle, and a clear end. This does not happen now, every movie sets up for the one that’s going to be next. It’s never the end. But I think it is so cool that this has a complete story. You have the guy who’s from the original show, and whether or not it continues after that is not really important. Did we achieve what we set out to achieve in this movie? Yes. And it ends open-ended enough that we could continue this, or it could just be what it is.

Kelly
Ending with the opening of the original series is so smart. It could send you in any direction. It could send you into more movies with these characters, it could send you into a new TV show, it could send you into the original series. It’s pointing you wherever you want to go.

Allison
It’s very anything is possible. That’s the spirit of the movie.

Kelly
And the spirit of the original series, from what I can gather.

Allison
It feels very, like, “We’re going on an adventure, boys!” Every first movie now is a trailer for the inevitable sequel, and I think it’s smart that this avoided that. Another thing I noted was that this isn’t quite doing the multiverse thing that has become incredibly popular, but it’s not not that either. I like the way they do it here, where the two timelines get to coexist. I love the moment where Spock and Spock Prime meet at the end, and I love how distinctly different those two versions of Spock feel. It’s hard to speak in hypotheticals, but if this movie were to come out today, I feel like that meeting between the two Spocks would just be unbearable. It would not feel as understated as it does.

Kelly
There’s some self-deprecation to it. The way that Leonard Nimoy delivers the jokes that he gets there — “My usual sign-off would be oddly self-serving” — I think there is a sort of wink that says he’s able to kind of not take himself too seriously. The movie is also able to not take original Spock so seriously that he doesn’t feel like a character.

Allison
And I do understand who Spock was in the show just based on these few scenes that we get with him. It doesn’t feel like they put a cameo in there to put a cameo in there. He has a real impact on the story, and it’s important that Kirk meets him. It’s important that Kirk understands that at some point he is going to have a friendship with Spock and it isn’t always going to be as bad as it is. It doesn’t feel cheap. Yeah, I think this movie coming out at the time that it did is essential to its success, and maybe why the sequels did not work as well.

Kelly
I will also say I understand, knowing what I do of J.J.’s work, why Spock is a character that he seems to really like writing. I think that he’s very into the importance of emotion and of vulnerability, and the importance of being able to express your emotions, which is a girl movie theme, I would argue. So I think it’s clear that the thing about Spock that he finds really interesting is that he has a human mom, and a Vulcan dad. He’s torn between how emotional he can be and how to express those emotions, and you have other characters questioning whether he feels those emotions in the first place. You see that sort of message in a lot of his work. To call it a moral or a message would feel wrong, because I don’t think that that’s really the way that he usually expresses it, but there is a through line in things like Alias and Fringe where female characters in particular, who are in jobs where you would expect them to have to repress their emotions, instead channel their emotions into their work, and it explicitly is something that they say makes them stronger, even if it also is a vulnerability. I think that’s something that his TV work is really interested in and I can see it in this movie in Spock.

Allison
That reminds me of what we were saying about Kirk having the girl sensibilities but being a boy character. He did it with Spock, too. I love that Spock Prime is like, “You need to prey on my emotions. Girl, just do it.” Spock is having a girl’s journey, too. He’s having his mental breakdown in front of everyone he works with. 

Kelly
Crying in the work meeting.

Allison
Yes! He’s trying to choke his coworker in the work meeting. I love what you said about how the women in J.J.’s shows are able to channel their emotions into their jobs. I love Spock’s path to realizing that he, too, can do that. He has that moment where he and Kirk are on the Romulan ship and Kirk’s like, “I got you.” And he does! Spock trusts him, it’s this very emotional connection that they have to work toward. It becomes an asset rather than a weakness for Spock. And he has the conversation with his dad… a lot of girl movie tropes.

This brings me to the essential question of any Star Trek property, but especially this one. It is impossible to ignore the iconic gay element of Kirk and Spock. Who would I be? I’m curious about your thoughts on that relationship, how it plays into the boy movie narrative, and how it plays into the overall cultural perception of them.

Kelly
What you were just saying about the two of them developing this connection, I think it’s so interesting that it starts with Spock Prime being the one to say, “We’re friends,” and then young Kirk internalizing that and therefore creating the friendship. And so it becomes this story of kind of fate versus choice, where there is something about them that is kind of being enacted by forces outside of Kirk’s control. J.J. Abrams loves fate versus choice. Fundamentally, I would say that’s a boy movie thing, but I think he’s applied it in a lot of girl shows. So that, to me, is a sort of boy movie take on this relationship, to make it a question of what’s fated and what’s their choice. I don’t think the movie is too explicit about that, but it’s there. It’s a funny way to look at that relationship because it is simultaneously a very boy movie lens to take on it, but then at the same time, the idea of these two being fated to be friends… gay.

Allison
Gay! Gay as hell.

Kelly
Beautifully gay.

Allison
Gorgeously gay.

Kelly
It leaves that idea in there as well. Even though I would argue, and I say this affectionately, J.J. Abrams has barely ever met a gay character, despite frequently working with iconic gay collaborators. On screen, very rarely meets gay characters, doesn’t really know what to do with them. But I think that the idea of this friendship being so big that it traverses timelines is not not bigger than a friendship, you know?

Allison
I know. It’s almost Shakespearean. It’s like a Greek play. No version of the universe ever puts those two at odds permanently. That’s the way it has to work in order for anything to get done. Those two have to be friends and they have to work together.

Kelly
There’s love between them. Friendship is the word that he uses, but I don’t think friendship is ever at odds with that.

Allison
No! Sorry to reference Into Darkness again, we’re not here to talk about the sequel, but I have to mention a moment from that movie that’s played for laughs. We might read more into it, but I would imagine that J.J. is just like, “Funny thing!” But there’s that moment where Uhura and Kirk bitch about Spock together. It’s like, those are Spock’s girlfriends, and they’re bitching about him and they can’t stand him. They’re having their little sister wives moment.

Before I even knew what this movie was, I was aware that Kirk and Spock were — like, if someone was going to make a joke about gay characters, it would be Bert and Ernie, and Kirk and Spock. Then you watch this, and it’s like, “Okay, I get it.” They’re a little bit in love. Something I’ve seen in Spock as I’ve gotten older is his queer narrative. Where does he fit in? Which one is he? Where does he belong? He’s getting bullied as a child. It’s very X-Men.

Kelly
I think that really speaks to me in terms of why so many of J.J. Abrams’ TV shows have resonated with me. I called Alias a girl show, but I’ve seen plenty of gay men online who have so much love in their hearts for Alias. There is something queer about his sensibilities that does not rely on the lack of gay characters. Whether it’s a TV show or a movie, he’s really interested in stories about people who don’t know where they fit.

Allison
Yeah, and that’s why all the classic monster movies are gay allegories, I brought up X-Men, there’s Spider-Man and his secret identity — that’s why all these things have so many legions of gay fans, and I see it here with Spock. He’s an alien, but he’s also human. I think that’s a cool thing to have in a movie like this, where you can project on it what you want and you can get what you want out of it. Obviously we must bring up that Zachary Quinto is gay, and that feels very baked into the narrative, too. I just can’t disassociate this movie with watching it in 2009 and being like, “Hm… they’re in love. I get it.”

Kelly
And I think there’s a real security to the way that both Zachary Quinto and Chris Pine play these parts. There is no sense of, “But they’re just bros.” It’s not something that they would necessarily, quote-unquote, “have to worry about,” because the script is not trying to say otherwise. But I think they are both playing these characters as very confident in their feelings.

Allison
There are those moments where Kirk’s machismo comes out, like when he goes, “Relax, cupcake.”

Kelly
But the machismo sort of feels like a put-upon. It doesn’t feel like the rest of the way that Chris Pine is interpreting the character. There is otherwise such a flair to him, and such a comfort around the men in his life, and his friendship with Bones. The way Chris Pine plays a lot of the comedy, the physical comedy, all this stuff when he’s had the vaccine — he’s just very sure of himself and very okay with being silly. He’s not trying to play cool.

Allison
He apparently said that he chose to incorporate elements of — iconic boy movies — Tom Cruise in Top Gun and Harrison Ford’s portrayals of Indiana Jones and Han Solo into his performance, but I actually don’t see this performance as a very classic action movie guy. You’re right, there’s a flair to it that is playful and individual. It’s not off-puttingly masculine. I’m never rolling my eyes.

On the subject of Chris Pine, it’s fun that Chris Hemsworth plays Kirk’s dad. Really great opening sequence, the stakes are immediately high. You understand what is going to impact this kid for the rest of his life, his dad who he never got to meet, but who died saving his life. But the Chris debate, which somehow is still happening, I don’t understand — like, aren’t we over this? It feels very much, forgive me, like a normal people debate.

Kelly
It’s too mainstream at this point.

Allison
And I don’t even think it addresses the heart of the issue here, which is that Chris Pine is a girl actor, and he is the only one of the Chrises who is a girl actor. I know you’re a fellow Pine appreciator³, so regarding his status as girl actor versus boy actor, what are your thoughts?

Kelly
I think girl actor. First of all, you don’t do the second Princess Diaries movie at a crucial juncture in your career without being a girl actor. Second, he has a documented appreciation for working with female directors. He really actively seems to seek out working with female creative teams, he seems to like what that brings to his movies and his characters, and really does not seem to mind being the second fiddle or the love interest. I remember interviews that he did around Wonder Woman where he was fine with that. I think his interest in flipping the script on where a guy who looks like him falls in a movie is very girl actor of him. And, I mean, he’s got that voice. He can sing really well. I think that also plays into why he likes flipping the script on his roles, that he doesn’t mind being the butt of the joke. He enjoys comedy. I enjoy his work, and I think he is doing a lot more interesting work than the Chrises he’s lumped in with.

Allison
I had seen Princess Diaries 2 before this, but I don’t think I even clocked him at the time. I think I was too young when I saw it to register him, so this movie was really my formal introduction to him. The press tour of this movie was so big online, specifically the little games that Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto would play with each other, their word games. I remember that being part of the reason why I liked him so much. I don’t know if you were aware of this, but I think this is the first time I’m talking about Chris Pine for Boy Movies, so I must mention it: Do you remember the iconic Tumblr post where someone wrote into someone else’s blog saying, “I saw Chris Pine in a coffee shop, and he was writing in his Moleskine, ‘What a strange, sad day it’s been’”?

Editor’s note: This would have had an incredible life as a meme had it happened a few years later. The really good Chris Pine lore is for true heads only, I’ll say it!

Kelly
I did not know this story. It’s so beautiful.

Allison
That endeared me to him so early on. Like, what a weirdo. Even to have someone make up that story about you, even if it’s not true, what is it about him that inspires a story like that? It’s because he really resonates with the girls. As you said, he’s got that voice, and it’s his physicality. He’s not too jacked. Action star at many points in his career, but it’s almost like the Oscar Isaac effect. He didn’t have to get Marvel buff to succeed as a franchise star. So much of it does rely on his charisma. He brings a lot of girlisms with him wherever he goes.

Kelly
Both he and Chris Hemsworth look so surprising to me in this movie. You see them both channeling that 2009 idea of pretty boy. It is so startling. I actually don’t feel like I know what to do with Chris Pine’s face in this movie until he’s beat up. He has to have some bruises on him.

Allison
I completely agree. That shot of him when he has, which I think is a cute touch, the Enterprise salt shaker, and he’s looking at it and he’s all bloodied… I remember being in the theater and being like, “He’s hot.” But you’re so right, it’s a very of its time idea of what a leading man should look like.

Kelly
I have a clear memory of watching that specific shot in the theater, too. But my reaction to it was to Michael Giacchino’s score, because he’s Alias guy, also Lost. Hearing the score for that scene in particular, on top of the fact that it’s beautiful, I just remember being struck by how much it sounded like Alias to me, and I was like, “I am home. I am watching a movie by the people who made Alias on the big screen.”

I did make a lot of little notes of other little J.J. Abrams references. We’ve talked about a lot of the obvious thematic elements that feel very J.J. to me, and then there are also things like Michael Giacchino’s score, and some of the people he’s collaborating with. But there are a lot of little winks, too. Definitely the biggest one is the red matter, because there’s a recurring thing in Alias that dates back to the pilot episode of Alias, but then becomes a major plot element of the show, that all has to do with this red liquid ball. It became, I guess, a thing for his collaborators where they were just always trying to put the red matter in everything. I remember being shocked when I watched this movie for the first time that they made that such a prominent part of it. They referenced Slusho, which also started with Alias. There are a few uses of the number 47, which also is an Alias number. Things like that are Easter eggs and winks, but the red matter is a major part of the plot. They decided it was also going to be a Star Trek thing.

Allison
They were sitting in that room saying, “Heehee, what can we squeeze in?” They were in a silly goofy mood.

Kelly
They were in a silly goofy mood. I have one more thing to bring up, which is that the production designer, Scott Chambliss, who’s another Abrams regular, told Star Trek Magazine, “The big red ball has a lot of resonance for J.J. and I. We have one in virtually everything we do. It started with the Alias pilot. I always look at a script and wonder what the big red ball is going to be this time.”

Allison
Looking at my little notes, I called out the Kirk and Bones friendship, which I think is really sweet. I love how ride or die Bones is for him. He’s like, “I’m getting you on the ship and I will back-talk Spock when he banishes you.” I think Karl Urban is pretty excellent in this, too. It’s hard to be the grumpy one.

Kelly
I also, and I mean this as a compliment, I think there are some things about Bones in this movie that are not for me. More than any other character in the franchise, he feels like the one who is sort of written for fans of the existing Star Trek universe, down to the way it almost feels like the movie is pausing for applause after he says, “All I got left is my bones.” It is so aware of the audience in that moment. He works on his own as a character, but there are moments that he is given that are just more transparently winks for the long-time fans than anything else. And I think that honestly works, and it’s funny that they did that with him, because he’s just enough of a side character that it doesn’t feel like it’s disrupting the flow of the story.

Allison
He gets his little quips. He loves a little insult. The one who hates space is very funny, too. I also have in my notes… just… Anton Yelchin :(

Kelly
I can’t believe we’ve made it this far without bringing him up. What a sweetheart. He brings a real joy to the movie.

Allison
It’s a character that is unlike any other in the movie. He’s very boisterous, he’s the youngest one. He was a great actor. You don’t see a type of performance like that in a franchise movie now either, in terms of someone who is clearly having a lot of fun but not sucking all the air out of the room and also being kind of the comic relief but not the butt of the joke.

Kelly
It also speaks to the franchise as a whole that it was important for their diversity efforts, if you will, during the 1960s and the Space Race and the Cold War, to include a Russian character on the same plane as everyone else. In a way, it really feels like a very direct point back at the original franchise. Most of these other characters, you don’t look at them and think, “Their inclusion here feels very 1960s,” but his does. And he sells it with his performance.

Allison
I love the “Wictor, Wictor” thing.

Kelly
It feels like it’s really on his side in that moment. On the subject of these funny little character moments that are built into it, I also want to shout-out, “Hi, Christopher, I’m Nero.”

Allison
Oh, the delivery.

Kelly
Something about the way he’s saying it, like he’s speaking to a child. There’s a mundanity to it, but then there’s also almost condescension that comes across because it’s so casual. It’s something that works really well in this movie, the way the character moments all have this unexpected tone to them. This is sort of only tangentially related, but it’s something that I’m going to say. In the Alias pilot commentary — I’ve watched DVD commentary for the Alias pilot so many times, it is permanently ingrained in my mind — they talk a lot about the first fight scene, and how they really wanted to make sure that Jennifer Garner’s character, Sydney, was using things in the environment around her. It’s in a parking garage, and there’s a moment where she pulls back on a car’s antenna and whips it back and it hits the guy in the face. I think that’s a sensibility that they apply, first of all, in the fight scenes in this movie, but not just in the fight scenes. There is a consideration of how to bring humanity in the way the characters are interacting with each other and use their environment and bring these little moments of mundane human interaction into it. There is sort of a boy movie quality to the way it brings comedy because there is that overdone Marvel trend of needing to add a quip to everything serious, but it doesn’t feel like that here. It’s so much more rooted in the way the characters would actually be interacting. It’s not polished, you know?

Allison
This movie, for being a movie about space with silly looking aliens, is actually pretty grounded. I think it has a good script. The dialogue feels very real to me — I mean, as real as it can when they’re saying words like “Klingon.” But the interactions between the characters don’t feel like they were fine-tooth combed through by every exec. I’m not saying they weren’t, but a lot of the dialogue gets to breathe. It makes the relationships feel very strong, and I think that’s why they work. I love that you clocked “Hi, Christopher, I’m Nero.” To have the alien villain saying something so glib to this very serious figure in the movie, Captain Pike, is such a funny beat. Also, as I’ve gotten older, I can appreciate that Nero’s motivations actually make sense. He doesn’t understand the difference between Spock and Spock Prime.

Kelly
It’s all Spock to him, which is also a way for the movie to say, “He’s different, but he’s the same.” It’s that catch-22 where you want the villain to be saying things that make sense, but he’s also saying things that make you think, “Should we villainize this?” Because part of what he’s saying is, “Why do you choose to view genocide as genocide only when it’s against a planet that is part of your little group?”

Allison
Exactly, how can you argue with that? I love a villain that’s kind of got a point. That’s such a big idea that the movie sort of addresses, too. Spock cares so much about this because it is his home planet, and that’s the only time he cares. That’s what clued him in to what was going on. There are a lot of big ideas happening here, through the villain specifically.

Kelly
And could maybe stand to be addressed a little more, but they’re just like, “Look over here, we’re going to do another fight scene now.”

Allison
In that sense, this is a very classic franchise movie where they’ll have a pretty big idea and then it just will not be unpacked at all. Like, “Kirk and Spock are the good guys, so you should root for them.”

I have to say that I love the Tyler Perry cameo, too. Very Tyler Perry in Gone Girl.

Kelly
He fits very well in it, too. I think both of those scenes are good.

Allison
The camerawork is really solid. This is a movie with a lot of tight close-ups, but I think they’re utilized well in these scenes, especially in the first scene where Kirk and Spock are sizing each other up. I love Kirk being able to beat the test and Spock being like, “He’s a liar, and I know he’s a liar because I’m the smartest freak in the galaxy.” I love the way that’s communicated silently as it cuts between the two of them.

Kelly
And that they both have a point! If the test itself is a cheat, how is that fair? But then I really love the line where Spock is like, “The purpose is to feel fear in the face of certain death.” That’s a really interesting idea to have hanging over the rest of the movie. The question is whether the danger that they’re in is going to be something that they can’t get out of, and Spock is saying that sometimes you can’t get out of it but Kirk believes you can.

Allison
And that ends up coming back around when Kirk tells Sulu, “If we’re still on the ship, do what you gotta do.” He’s very much willing to give it up. It feels very earned by the end, him teaming up with Spock and being willing to die if it has to come to that for the greater good.

Kelly
It doesn’t feel out of place for him, because you get the sense that he would’ve always said, “Yeah, you can kill me if you have to.” It plays into his belief that there’s no such thing as a no-win scenario.

Allison
That’s what his dad did. His dad’s version of winning was that his son and his wife got to live. I also want to note that before Chris Hemsworth got cast as Kirk’s dad, J.J. was talking to Matt Damon about playing him. My good friend Matt Damon!

Kelly
I can’t picture it. I think he would be a little too high-profile for that scene.

Allison
You would’ve almost felt like they needed to give him more time. It would’ve been a different energy. But that is really a Boy Movies thing, Matt Damon somehow being involved with this, as he has been involved with so many areas of my life.

Kelly
At the end of this, do we have any concluding thoughts on where J.J. or this movie falls on the boy movies continuum?

Allison
Yes, I do. A while ago, Sarah, who does all the graphics for Boy Movies, and I discussed a boy movies scale, and within that scale we came up with a term that applies to Kirk really well, which is “very special boy.” A lot of boy movies have a very special boy, he’s the only one who can get the thing done. That is not something that I would’ve been able to articulate before this newsletter, so just in terms of the very special boy protagonist, the sci-fi action of it all, the Star Trek franchise as a whole — those things are traditional boy movie elements. But what gives it the edge, and maybe we do have J.J. to thank for this based on what you have told me here today at J.J. Abrams School, is that he really does do a good job injecting his, as you said, girl sensibilities. He’s very tapped into the girl movie mindset, and he brings a lot of that to this thing that feels very big and very boy and perhaps corporate. That’s what gives it the heart and what makes it float between boy movie and girl movie, while still existing under the boy movie umbrella.

Kelly
I totally agree. It’s clearly a boy movie, but there’s an attention to detail, and attention to the characters’ emotional lives, that puts it a cut above.

1. It’s my newsletter and I can say what I want.

2. From Kelly: “And also, you gotta put a footnote in this with the link to the Vanity Fair Lost exposé, because I don’t want to be out here sounding uncritical about Lost in light of what just came out.”

3. From a profile of Chris Pine from earlier this year, talking about the future of the Star Trek movies: “I’m not sure Star Trek was ever built to do that kind of business. I always thought, Why aren’t we just appealing to this really rabid fan group and making the movie for a good price and going on our merry way, instead of trying to compete with the Marvels of the world? … After the last one came out and didn’t do the $1 billion that everybody wanted it to do, and then Anton’—Yelchin, who played Chekov—‘passed away, I don’t know, it just seemed . . .” He doesn’t finish the thought but a few minutes later suggests that the franchise “feels like it’s cursed.”